Sri Sathya Sai Conversations on: Dvaita Vedanta and Madhvacharya

Thursday July 27, 2000 

Sri Madhvacharya, the Chief Proponent of Dvaita Philosophy 
After the evening interview, Swami asked Prof. Anil Kumar about the morning talk given by Prof. G. Venkataraman on Dvaita and Madhvacharya. 

Prof. A. K. : Swami, he spoke about Sakshi (witness). He said that it is not conscience. Then what is it? 

Swami : Ask him only. I don’t have Sakshi, so I cannot tell. Whoever has, he can only tell. (Swami simply put a very profound statement in a casual conversation. By saying that He did not have a Sakshi (witness), He revealed His Divinity. God is the witness for all; none can be His witness.) 

Prof. A. K. : Not at God’s level Swami, for us, humans? 

Swami : Your conscience is your witness. 

Prof. A. K. : Then for God? 

Swami : For God, witness is Anubhuti (experience). 

Prof. A. K. : Swami has said that Moksha (liberation) means no re-birth. Not merger also? How? (As per the Dvaita philosophy, a soul can never merge in the Divine. It can only surrender to the Divine.) 

Swami : In My opinion, Moksha is Moha Kshayam (annihilation of the desires). 

Prof. A. K. : Ah! Classical definition, Swami. 

Swami : Not classical. 

Prof. A. K. : Swami, he also said that Madhvacharya established the Udupi Krishna statue. 
Lord Krishna of Udupi
Swami : Yes, the statue is very heavy. It has a very big stomach. (The Udupi Krishna temple is a famous Hindu temple dedicated to Lord Krishna located in the town of Udupi in Karnataka; and established by Madhvacharya in the 13th century AD.) 

Prof. A. K. : Swami, he spoke about three different entities: pot, clay and potter. 
(In Dvaita philosophy, these three things are used as an analogy for created objects, creation and the Creator respectively.) He said both are eternal. How? 

Swami : Pot is made of clay. Both are same. Shankara, Ramanuja, Madhva, all the three said, ‘Bhaja Govindam’ and encouraged Bhakti Marga (the path of devotion). 

Prof. A. K. : Swami, what is beyond God? 

Swami : Beyond God, there is nothing. Only zero. 

Prof. A. K. : Swami, beyond God there cannot be anything. Not even zero. 

Swami : (To Hari Shankar, a students of the first year M.B.A. programme) IIT? 
(He nodded in the affirmative.) What subject? 

Student : Naval Architecture and Ship building. 

Swami : Why did you come here from IIT? 

Student : To be with You, Swami. 

Swami : How is M.B.A.? 

Student : Very good, Swami. 

Swami : How was ‘Madhvacharya’ lecture? 

Student : Good, Swami. 

Swami : Who is the potter? 

Student : God is the potter, Swami. 

Swami : Mud is Jeeva (individual soul). 

Student : Swami, why should Jeeva and Paramatma be separate? 

Swami : It is like this. We have a tumbler and a plate; both are made up of silver. But tumbler is used for drinking and plate is used for eating. Just because silver is same in both, can we say both are same? Similarly, Dehas (bodies) are different. But Atma is one. (The M.B.A. and M.F.M. students showed Swami a card, praying to Swami for guidance for the forthcoming M.B.A. Anniversary day.) So much time is there. 

Student : Swami, we have to practice. 

Swami : For practicing, one week is enough. 

(Swami blessed all of them with Padanamaskar.)

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