Conversations with Sri Sathya Sai on Science, Spirituality and Scriptures

June 27, 2002 (Thursday)

Swami    :    (Standing near the pillar near the doctors and smiling) I am not coming there.

Students    :    Please come, Swami.

Swami comes and stands near the chair in the portico.

Swami    :    All the boys are very happy for the last five days. I am troubling all of you unnecessarily.

For the last five days Swami had not come to the portico and interacted with the students. So all the students were really introspecting as to why Swami had stopped interacting with them and if they had made any mistakes.

Students    :    No, Swami.

Swami    :    (Looking at the teachers) Why do you think unnecessarily? Why do you think that it is my mistake or his mistake? Nobody has committed any mistakes. It is just that I have been busy for the last five days. So I couldn’t come. Where is Radhaswamy?  

Prof. A. K.    :    He has gone to have coffee, Swami.            
(Editor’s Note: The faculty members from the Institute would directly come for Darshan from College without taking a break. Hence, many of them would return home after Swami’s Darshan so that they could freshen up, have light refreshments and return for Bhajans.)   

Swami    :    Himachal Pradesh Chief Minister (Sri Prem Kumar Dhumal) had come. I talked to him. He came with 11 ministers. (To Prof. Anil Kumar) Where is your pillow?

Prof. A. K.    :    It hasn’t arrived as yet, Swami.

Swami takes letters from some of the boys.

Swami    :    Where is Krupanidhi?

Prof. A. K.    :    He has also gone to have coffee, Swami.

Swami    :    Paapam (Seeing another letter) Who is this Niranjan? Our research scholar? (Looking at another letter) What is this ‘Para Bhagavan’? (It was written on the envelope.) This letter does not have the name of the person who wrote it. It is meaningless.

Prof. A. K.    :    Yes Swami.

Swami    :    How many times does the Earth rotate per second? Anybody?
(The students gave different answers.) How many miles does it rotate? It rotates by 18.5 miles in one second. How many miles does it travel in one day?

Student    :    Swami, 3600 X 24 X 18.5.

Swami    :    Dunnapota. You should calculate and tell. (Many students gave different answers.) In one day, it travels 182,284 miles. How much distance will you have to cover to go round the planet once? It takes 22 lakh crore miles to go to the Sun and return. (Looking at a teacher) You have come. Boys were happy and at peace for the last five days.

Students    :    No, Swami.

Swami    :    (To Prof. G. Venkatraman (Prof. G. V.), Former Vice-Chancellor) How many Suns are there?

Prof. G. V.    :    Swami, crores of them.

Swami    :    There are some crores of galaxies. In those, there are many like our Milky Way. There are also many Suns like our Sun. There are countless stars. Some of the stars’ light has not yet reached the earth. All this is energy. There are many things, which are yet to be discovered by the scientists. 

The Milky Way Galaxy
Prof. G. V.    :    Swami, what is the difference between Prana (life force) and Chaitanya (energy)?

Swami    :    They are both the same. There is no difference.

Prof. A. K.    :    Swami, but they say Jada (inert matter) and Chaitanya (energy). What is Jada then?

Swami    :    Nothing in this world is Jada. Everything is full of Chaitanyam. This is nothing but energy. There is no matter. Everything is energy. Even the body, which is said to be inert, is full of energy. There is an intimate relationship between matter and energy. Clouds are formed out of water and these clouds become water again in the form of rain. Similar is the relationship between matter and energy. They are both interchangeable. For example, we have an egg from which a bird is born and vice-versa.   

It is the case with a seed and a tree, or a mother and child. All these keep changing. What is the reason for all these changes? In this world, everything is energy. There is no matter which is separate from energy. This energy is what is called Brahma. Everything is a combination of atoms. These are forms of Divine energy. Scientists make the mistake of differentiating between matter and energy. It is because of their mistaken notion. For example, the body derives its energy from food. This means that the food is not inert. It has energy. Because of the food, you become strong. So, energy is omnipresent. Even the atom has a lot of energy.

There are many things that we cannot see. As we press our thumb onto the chair, lakhs of lives are being destroyed, though you cannot see them. Everywhere, there is this atomic energy, which is the same as Divine energy. To receive this energy, you don’t have to wait. You can see the form of this energy in a moment. You think it is difficult to have this vision and you undertake various methods of Japam (chanting), Puja (worship), etc. In order to see your own form, you needn’t undertake all this. Form is only one.

Prof. A. K.    :    But Swami, I see my form.

Swami    :    Not only this form. The form is only one and it is everywhere. All are your forms. Concentrate for a second and you can see all forms everywhere. They keep changing like pictures on a cinema screen. Because of the speed, you think that the images are moving, walking, etc. But, there is no movement actually. When you cut your finger, it bleeds. As you lose a drop of blood, you lose many of your forms in a moment’s time. This is why you feel weak when you lose blood. Every drop has your form. Even the hairs have your form in them.

Prof. G. V.    :    Swami, it is only now that scientists are discovering this by cloning.

Swami    :    Yes, even Einstein investigated a little initially. Later, he understood the oneness in creation. How many cells are there in the eye? There are three crore cells. How many taste buds do you have? Thousands of them.
Albert Einstein
So, when you see with your eyes, you see thousands of forms, which are all in you, they are all your own reflections. Everything is your own reflection, reaction, and resound. Everything is within you. You should see your own form in everyone. Even when you look at someone, you should see yourself. This is what is meant by the Vedic dictum – Ekaatma Sarvabhootaantaraatma (the same Atma resides in all creation).

You see various forms; but they are all in you, with you, around you, above you and below you. Because of plurality, we spoil ourselves. Scientists differentiate between matter and energy. It is wrong to do so. This cloth is not matter, it is only energy. Where is the strength that binds it? That is the very energy. On drinking water, you gain strength. This means water is also a form of energy. This is why water is sprinkled on an unconscious person. As soon as water touches the person, he regains consciousness. There is consciousness existing in each of us. But no one is conscious of its existence.

A scientist once visited Einstein. He asked, “Where is my brother?” Einstein replied, “I am your brother”. He realised the relationship that binds mankind. Einstein’s wife would always fight with him. There was a child in his neighbourhood. Someone told her that Einstein is very good at Mathematics. So, she went to Einstein and took his help to do her homework. Later, her mother scolded her and said that since Einstein was a great scientist, she shouldn’t go and disturb him. For this mistake she slapped her. Einstein told the mother, “You shouldn’t say that. She is like a daughter to me. What is wrong in her asking me something she doesn’t know? You slapped her, but I am feeling the pain.” Thus, he explained to her.

Newton also had a similar experience. He discovered that the gravitational force was all pervasive and not limited only to London. Whenever he stepped out of his house, he would feel the gravitational force everywhere. After Bhajans, My feet get stuck to the floor. Everywhere, I feel the same way. This gravity itself is a Divine force. Similarly, sound, atoms and all that is experienced by you is Divine force. Even something that happened thousands of years ago can be enacted again.

Four boys sleep in My room on four sides of My bed; four others sleep downstairs. They have had many experiences. Once, they got up at midnight and didn’t see Me. They stood there surprised. After sometime, I came and they said, “Swami, You were not there.” I told them that I was very much there. Now they have understood that I am always there. Sometimes they hear songs sung by Me.
One intelligent boy keeps a tape recorder to record the songs. However, nothing gets recorded!

Once, it was 1.30 am. One of the boys was sleeping near the door. I went through the door. He couldn’t make out. After sometime, he heard a conversation. I was talking to the mother of this body (Smt. Easwaramma). He woke everyone up. All of them could hear the conversation. As I opened the door, all of them were standing with their palms joined together in Namaskar. I told them that I was talking to ‘Gruham Ammayi’ (referring to Smt. Easwaramma). She had brought a belt for Me. She knew that I used to use an elastic belt (across the waist) before. So, she brought one for Me. It had no buckles. She brought it and offered it to Me.
King Dasharatha laments as Sri Rama leaves to forest
Sumanta, Dasharatha’s minister was going with Rama to leave Him in the forest. At that time, Rama gave His ring to Sumanta. As long as he had that ring, he could see Rama in the ring. After Sumanta returned to Ayodhya, he gave the ring to Dasharatha. During his last moments, Dasharatha could see Rama in the ring. Divinity is all-pervasive. When Sumanta gave the ring to Dasharatha, he wanted the ring to be returned to Rama after 14 years. (Swami created the ring which Rama had given Sumanta.) This is Rama’s ring, which He had given Sumanta thousands of years ago. The ring is the same. But, the stone is changed. It didn’t last.

Prof. A. K.    :    Swami, the ring is so big!

Swami    :    Those days the people were all very big. Rama was very tall and broad-shouldered. I can bring anything, even things which existed thousands of years ago. I can make anyone appear in front of you in seconds. But, you don’t have the confidence, so I don’t reveal such things. In your body alone, there are crores of bodies. That is why it is said, Anoraneeyan Mahatomaheeyan (Divinity is smallest of the small and biggest of the big).

In this body alone, all the bodies exist. This is not just cosmic body. It is the Universal body. The boys who sleep in My room have many such experiences every day. But I make them forget all these experiences.

Prof. A. K.    :    Oh! So You have kept such a mechanism, Swami! Then what is the use?

Swami    :    I have to keep such a mechanism. (Smiling) Otherwise, it will leak out and become newspaper news! (Swami takes letters from a few boys. To Shashank Shah, a new M.B.A. student from Mumbai) This is not your letter. (Smiling) It is your mother’s letter. I know. (Showing R. Viswanath, another M.B.A. boy’s letter) See there is nothing in the letter. Only ‘Please, Please’ is written. (To Prof. Anil Kumar) Yesterday, the day before yesterday and the day before that, one of the four students couldn’t come to sleep. He was crying yesterday. He said that he was sad that he had missed the experience of three nights. Last night, I gave him the experiences of all three nights he had missed. Chiranjeevi Rao also wanted to experience. But he came and fell asleep. He was snoring loudly! Chakravarthi also came to sleep for three nights. Having had the experience, they want to come again. Many don’t know of these things. Only few people have had these chances. No one can understand Me. Chiranjeevi Rao and Chakravarthi also discovered this. Kutumba Rao (former caretaker of the Prasanthi Nilayam Ashram) also had such experiences. Those days, there was sand in front of the Mandir and I used to stay upstairs. He along with Suraiyya and Lokanatha used to sleep on the sands. They had wonderful experiences. They lived for 100 years. Even Sheshagiri Rao (the first priest of the Prasanthi Nilayam Bhajan Mandir) and Kamavadhani (a great Vedic exponent). Even you have seen some of them. They had no complaints from their lives. Before they breathed their last, they just lay down and gave up their body. Kamavadhani had conducted the Rathotsavam. He decorated the idols and came to the Mandir by 12.00 in the afternoon. That day I served him food, gave him water and asked him what his age was. He replied that he had completed 100 years the previous day. I told him that it was time and he had better take water and go. He went and did not come for evening Darshan, which used to be at 4 o’ clock. Some volunteers went to call him. But, he had already passed away peacefully. Those who do not doubt can know of this Divinity. Those who doubt can never know.

Prof. A. K.    :    Swami, that is why it is said, Samashayatma Vinashyati (the one with doubts perishes).

Swami    :    Yes, sing some Bhajan. Tomorrow, you will hear My Bhajans resounding in this hall. All the boys who want to see Rama’s image in the ring, I shall show them tomorrow.

All the students sang a Bhajan together after which Swami got up. 

Prof. A. K.    :    Swami, You have shown us something which is 30,000 years old.    

Swami    :    I can show things which are many more years older. (Swami walked towards the interview room and on the way) This man has come from B.B.C., I am giving this ring to him.      

Swami sat for the evening Bhajans after which He retired to the Poornachandra residence.

Source : Students with Sai : Conversations (2001-2004)


  1. The discoveries(thoughts) given by scientists are always contradictory because Eienstein's theory contradicted Charles Darwin's evolutionary theory...But in spiritual world what Sri Aurobindo(Pondicherry) had realized on 1923-24 & what he got as achievement on 23rd November 1926 night(24th November as Siddhi Day) is we're witnessing in practical field as the transition period for elevating a major section of human concsiousness(Supernatural=Atimanas Chetna) state...Thank you SSwS team for giving a profound understanding of these things as given by Bhgawan...Jai Sairam

  2. Thank you team ! Eternally grateful !
    Dr Krishna Raman


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