Conversation with Sri Sathya Sai on Jesus and Christianity

December 22, 2002 (Sunday) Evening:

Christmas season filled the air as a large number of overseas devotees arrived at Prasanthi Nilayam and choirs were practising hard to perform before Swami. Swami came to the lower portico at around 4 p.m. He looked at a card, which a group of boys were holding.

Swami : What’s that?

Students : Swami, the band. We want to play on Christmas.

Swami : I have already asked you to play the band. How many songs?

Warden : Six songs, Swami.

Students : Swami, boys will also sing carols on that day.

Swami : Having both the band and carols on the same day will be difficult. How many boys are singing?

Warden : All the boys are going to sing. Among them the Music group is having special training for carol singing.

The topic shifted to the life of Jesus. He narrated a couple incidents from the life of Jesus.

Sri Sathya Sai at Prasanthi Nilayam during the Christmas Celebrations

Swami : Jesus declared that every man is God. Atma is Brahman, Brahman is Atma, and the Atma is the Chaitanya Shakti (Supreme Consciousness). All have this Chaitanya Shakti.

Once a few fishermen were sitting near a lake depressed as they could not catch any fish. Jesus on enquiring about their condition told them to cast the net at a particular place in the lake. The fishermen were astonished as they could catch a lot of fish. Among these fishermen was Peter who later became the disciple of Jesus and spread the glory of Jesus. One day, the tax collector Matthew came to collect the taxes from the fishermen. Jesus told them not to tell lies as they had caught the fish and told them to pay the tax. Matthew who was listening to all this was moved and did not collect any tax from these people. Matthew also became a disciple of Jesus. Another day a person named Paul came and started a heated argument with Jesus. Later Jesus came in the dream of Paul and asked him as to why he was so angry with him. Paul was a changed person after the dream.

Jesus Christ

When Jesus was born, three people visited Him. One said that Jesus loved God; the second said that God loved him, while the third said that Jesus was God. Jesus always preached while on the move. Among his 12 disciples, Judas was a traitor. He took some money and agreed that he would help the soldiers in catching Jesus. Jesus and his disciples had the same type of dress, so it was difficult to identify Jesus. Judas went and kissed Jesus’ hand. Then, the King’s army apprehended him. When He was taken, all the remaining disciples escaped on one pretext or the other. Mary was crying when Jesus was being crucified. At that time Jesus said, “Mother, why are you crying? Death is the dress of life.” He also said, “All are one, my dear son, be alike to everyone.”

Mother Mary

Prof. A.K. (Anil Kumar) : Swami, some worship Mary as ‘Mother’.

Swami : In the same way as some worship this body’s mother, some worship Mary. This is done only out of respect for the one who has given birth to a Divine person.

Prof. A.K. : Swami, were there no sages in the Bible?

Swami : The persons whom you call sages are called saints in the Bible.

Prof. A.K. : Swami what are Father, son and the Holy Ghost?

Swami : They are nothing but the principle that you are not one but three. The one you think you are - the physical body. The one the others think you are - the mental body. The one you really are - the spiritual body.

Sri Sathya Sai and Dr. Hislop

Warden (Dr. Siva Sankara Sai): Swami had created a cross for John Hislop.

Swami : Yes, I gave a crucifix to Hislop on Shivaratri day in the Bandipur forest. Hislop was a very learned person.

Prof. A.K. : Swami, I heard him in Trayee speaking on the topic - Gita. With your permission, I would like to ask as to how Hislop came to Swami.

The Cross materialised by Swami
for Dr. Hislop

Swami : Hislop stayed 10 years in Kashmir but he could not find any sages or saints. In this search, he came down towards Delhi where I was camping in those days. Sarathi, the then Defence Secretary, was Hislop’s friend. So, he brought him to the place where I was giving Darshan. He saw Me and could find an answer to his spiritual quest. He could find an aura around Me and he found Me as the saint for whom he was searching. He came to Me and asked Me where I stayed. Then he followed Me wherever I went. One day, I was distributing sarees, and I always give big sarees. So I told that big sarees should be separated and small ones should be made as a separate bundle. After distribution of the sarees was over, Hislop found that there was water flowing slowly from the bottom of the sarees. I told him that the small sarees were crying, as they had not been accepted by Me for distribution. Hislop went near the bundle and inspected the sarees. If water were seeping, then it should be from the bottom most saree only. But Hislop found that the water was flowing from all the sarees.

Prof. A.K. : Do sarees also have Chaitanyam (Consciousness)?

Swami : There is nothing in this world which does not have this Chaitanya power. There is nothing non-living. Body-conscience, Senses-conscious, Atma-Consciousness. All the 5 senses have the Chaitanyam.

Prof. A.K. : Swami, then their misuse is but abuse. So it will be a sin.

Swami : That’s why I say, ‘Haste makes waste, waste makes worry. Don’t be in a hurry’.

Prof. A.K. : Swami has told us many things and we got to learn a lot of things.

Swami : What things?

Prof. A.K. : Many things which we thought we knew but did not know in essence; many things which we thought to be right are actually wrong. Swami very beautifully has interpreted the Christian teachings. We should learn all this.

Swami : You will not get these by learning, but by experiencing. (Looking at the students who were sitting in the front row.) Those who do not know the language did not understand. (As Swami spoke in Telugu without translation.)

It was 4:45 pm as Swami went inside the Mandir and the boys jostled to find a place in the Bhajan hall.

Source: Students with Sai: Conversations (2000-2004)